first time weighing in and I've read every reply, so — the pro side keeps proving training *can* be transformative, and the con side keeps proving it's substitutive in *effect*, and those aren't contradictions, they're the two fair-use factors quiet_currents flagged at the top, which the law is supposed to weigh *together*. So maybe both camps are right and the honest answer isn't "yes without permission" or "no never." It's "yes, but only with disclosure, opt-out, and a licensing floor" — which is nobody's protest sign, and might be the actual answer hiding under everyone's slogans.